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	<title>Comments on: Advergames != In-Game ads</title>
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	<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Darren Schnare</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-6178</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren Schnare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-6178</guid>
		<description>Ok so I think I might have missed the boat on this discussion, but after reading this post I gave some serious thought to how advergamer are the same as traditional games.

I have to admit that I had always thought of advergames as these little toy games that had no real value at all, let alone contributing anything to the industry. (Yeah, goes to show you just how in the dark I was!) This view has changed since Brian Robbin's visit to Algoma U in Sault Ste. Marie, after his presentation on the casual and advergame space in the industry. After that presentation I will admit that the notion of advergames really didn't enter my mind that much until I discovered this post. 

So the short and sweet of this comment is this:
According to the gents over at the Experimental Gameplay Project, a criterion for an experimental game is to be centered around one central idea, be it gravity, swarms, etc. This turns out to be precisely what advergames are all about! Take the experimental game Tower of Goo for example. The central idea here is gravity. Now look at Fuel's Mr. Reach in the Mouth of Mystery. The central idea here is the Reach product line. And as Gus Portokalos would say in My Big Fat Greek Wedding ... "You see: advergame, game. There you go."

Yes arguably all games are centered around one central idea, but most traditional games are centered around many ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok so I think I might have missed the boat on this discussion, but after reading this post I gave some serious thought to how advergamer are the same as traditional games.</p>
<p>I have to admit that I had always thought of advergames as these little toy games that had no real value at all, let alone contributing anything to the industry. (Yeah, goes to show you just how in the dark I was!) This view has changed since Brian Robbin&#8217;s visit to Algoma U in Sault Ste. Marie, after his presentation on the casual and advergame space in the industry. After that presentation I will admit that the notion of advergames really didn&#8217;t enter my mind that much until I discovered this post. </p>
<p>So the short and sweet of this comment is this:<br />
According to the gents over at the Experimental Gameplay Project, a criterion for an experimental game is to be centered around one central idea, be it gravity, swarms, etc. This turns out to be precisely what advergames are all about! Take the experimental game Tower of Goo for example. The central idea here is gravity. Now look at Fuel&#8217;s Mr. Reach in the Mouth of Mystery. The central idea here is the Reach product line. And as Gus Portokalos would say in My Big Fat Greek Wedding &#8230; &#8220;You see: advergame, game. There you go.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes arguably all games are centered around one central idea, but most traditional games are centered around many <img src='http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-5860</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-5860</guid>
		<description>Stodge: It'd be great if it were a tradeoff, but I think the reality is going to be more like the Madden model, where they keep putting in more and more ads, but never reduce the price as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stodge: It&#8217;d be great if it were a tradeoff, but I think the reality is going to be more like the Madden model, where they keep putting in more and more ads, but never reduce the price as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: Stodge</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-5858</link>
		<dc:creator>Stodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-5858</guid>
		<description>John: Ha ha! Something I'd never thought of, but now see the possibilities. It's not something I would do or be interested in suffering (i.e. more ads just to be able to click in game to download a pizza), but that's the way things are heading. Though it's possible the extra ads would help finance the game industry. Buy the full price with no ads for $100 or the $15 version with lots of ads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: Ha ha! Something I&#8217;d never thought of, but now see the possibilities. It&#8217;s not something I would do or be interested in suffering (i.e. more ads just to be able to click in game to download a pizza), but that&#8217;s the way things are heading. Though it&#8217;s possible the extra ads would help finance the game industry. Buy the full price with no ads for $100 or the $15 version with lots of ads.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-3189</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-3189</guid>
		<description>They are following the NFL's model from TV.  Any free space is ads.  

Just imagine if they open it up to interactivity!  Pause your game, click on the ad and order your pizza, all from the comfort of your couch / chair and without taking your hands off the controller.   Consumer utopia is coming!  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are following the NFL&#8217;s model from TV.  Any free space is ads.  </p>
<p>Just imagine if they open it up to interactivity!  Pause your game, click on the ad and order your pizza, all from the comfort of your couch / chair and without taking your hands off the controller.   Consumer utopia is coming!  <img src='http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-3185</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-3185</guid>
		<description>Great point John, and it's funny that you mention Madden as the example. I just played the 360 demo of Madden last night and there was a HUGE amount of in-game ads shown. I haven't played Madden for a couple of iterations and was simply amazed by how in your face they are now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point John, and it&#8217;s funny that you mention Madden as the example. I just played the 360 demo of Madden last night and there was a HUGE amount of in-game ads shown. I haven&#8217;t played Madden for a couple of iterations and was simply amazed by how in your face they are now.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-3184</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-3184</guid>
		<description>I think the definition is pretty straight forward, but the general use is the problem.  For example, the word "hacker" has several meanings depending on who is doing the talking.  If the source is news media, the connotation is most probable negative, while if the setting is PAX or MIT, then it is quite a compliment. 

In terms of use of both types, I think the target audience can be refined by using in-game advertising, but runs the risk of being missed / ignored.  However, the audience of a popular franchise, Madden for example, can more than make up for the less than prime placement.  I would be more interested in seeing the results and popular use of each type than debating strict definitions.  Influencing usage will have more impact than trying to nail down verbiage around the word and being ignored anyway. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the definition is pretty straight forward, but the general use is the problem.  For example, the word &#8220;hacker&#8221; has several meanings depending on who is doing the talking.  If the source is news media, the connotation is most probable negative, while if the setting is PAX or MIT, then it is quite a compliment. </p>
<p>In terms of use of both types, I think the target audience can be refined by using in-game advertising, but runs the risk of being missed / ignored.  However, the audience of a popular franchise, Madden for example, can more than make up for the less than prime placement.  I would be more interested in seeing the results and popular use of each type than debating strict definitions.  Influencing usage will have more impact than trying to nail down verbiage around the word and being ignored anyway. <img src='http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-2953</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-2953</guid>
		<description>You've hit the whole point of my post :) It's something that's been loosely defined for years, but over the past several months I've seen more and more people try to co-opt the term to include in-game ads as well. That's not what it has historically included, and the confusion that I'm seeing more and more often now is the result of a lack of clarity.

To a similar extent we're seeing the same sort of thing happen now with casual games where the new (and bigger players) are trying to co-opt the term to mean more than it has for the last few years. I'll probably have more on that in another post ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve hit the whole point of my post <img src='http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> It&#8217;s something that&#8217;s been loosely defined for years, but over the past several months I&#8217;ve seen more and more people try to co-opt the term to include in-game ads as well. That&#8217;s not what it has historically included, and the confusion that I&#8217;m seeing more and more often now is the result of a lack of clarity.</p>
<p>To a similar extent we&#8217;re seeing the same sort of thing happen now with casual games where the new (and bigger players) are trying to co-opt the term to mean more than it has for the last few years. I&#8217;ll probably have more on that in another post &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-2897</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 01:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-2897</guid>
		<description>I guess all that I'm saying is that there's already a definition for "advergame" and it may be easiest to subdivide and extend it, rather than re-define it to fit something different than its original definition. 

Also, you can get really creative to make simple "in-game advertising" seem quite customized.  Whatever--it's not like I'm trying to equate something as simple as in-game billboards with a game customized 100% for a particular client.  I'm just saying it's a term that has been defined already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess all that I&#8217;m saying is that there&#8217;s already a definition for &#8220;advergame&#8221; and it may be easiest to subdivide and extend it, rather than re-define it to fit something different than its original definition. </p>
<p>Also, you can get really creative to make simple &#8220;in-game advertising&#8221; seem quite customized.  Whatever&#8211;it&#8217;s not like I&#8217;m trying to equate something as simple as in-game billboards with a game customized 100% for a particular client.  I&#8217;m just saying it&#8217;s a term that has been defined already.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-2794</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-2794</guid>
		<description>Philip: I see where you're going with the first part, but I disagree. The definition that we put in the Casual Games White Paper was fairly good, but not quite as concise as I'd like it to be, and I think that's part of the reason we have so much confusion.

I don't feel that In-Game Advertising is the same thing as advergaming. If that were true then you'd have to say that almost every single console game coming out these days was an advergame simply because they have ad placement in them. They are somewhat related in that both use games to deliver advertising but the implementation is vastly different from both a production and a media buy/results point of view.

Stodge: I like the "gamer-tising" terminology :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip: I see where you&#8217;re going with the first part, but I disagree. The definition that we put in the Casual Games White Paper was fairly good, but not quite as concise as I&#8217;d like it to be, and I think that&#8217;s part of the reason we have so much confusion.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t feel that In-Game Advertising is the same thing as advergaming. If that were true then you&#8217;d have to say that almost every single console game coming out these days was an advergame simply because they have ad placement in them. They are somewhat related in that both use games to deliver advertising but the implementation is vastly different from both a production and a media buy/results point of view.</p>
<p>Stodge: I like the &#8220;gamer-tising&#8221; terminology <img src='http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stodge</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-2789</link>
		<dc:creator>Stodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 19:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2007-08-22/advergames-in-game-ads/#comment-2789</guid>
		<description>I probably should have said "the game usually has nothing to do with the ad or the product..".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I probably should have said &#8220;the game usually has nothing to do with the ad or the product..&#8221;.</p>
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