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	<title>Comments on: The unreality of Casual Games Fortunes</title>
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	<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 02:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-137</guid>
		<description>Judging by the feedback I've seen I'd say you did a good job shaking things up Allen.

While I may not have explicitly mentioned it above, I agree with a lot of what you wrote, especially where it concerns the working environment and overall developer quality of life. Most casual game developers I know get to actually live their lives, and aren't constantly facing multi-month (or even multi-week!) crunch times.

As for the shareware universe vs. the casual game/portal players, it's something I've been meaning to write about for a while now. Check out the next blog post for that discussion :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging by the feedback I&#8217;ve seen I&#8217;d say you did a good job shaking things up Allen.</p>
<p>While I may not have explicitly mentioned it above, I agree with a lot of what you wrote, especially where it concerns the working environment and overall developer quality of life. Most casual game developers I know get to actually live their lives, and aren&#8217;t constantly facing multi-month (or even multi-week!) crunch times.</p>
<p>As for the shareware universe vs. the casual game/portal players, it&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve been meaning to write about for a while now. Check out the next blog post for that discussion <img src='http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Allen Varney</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Varney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 02:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-136</guid>
		<description>I wrote that Escapist article. I can see where you'd get the impression from it that there are lots and lots of rich shareware developers; I stated things broadly to shake up the preconceived notions of the Escapist audience. 

There are still plenty of small-team casual games -- maybe they're not the ones getting the big numbers on the major portals, but there's a large shareware universe beyond the portals. Check the Indie Game Developer forums for a view into the community.

My article does mention the importance of marketing. But it more strongly emphasizes the superior working environment of indie games, quite apart from the money to be made. It's a healthier, more sensible way to approach game design. And if you "only" pull down $100K a year -- well, I hope there are designers stuck in some sweatshop studio who might be willing to make that tradeoff!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote that Escapist article. I can see where you&#8217;d get the impression from it that there are lots and lots of rich shareware developers; I stated things broadly to shake up the preconceived notions of the Escapist audience. </p>
<p>There are still plenty of small-team casual games &#8212; maybe they&#8217;re not the ones getting the big numbers on the major portals, but there&#8217;s a large shareware universe beyond the portals. Check the Indie Game Developer forums for a view into the community.</p>
<p>My article does mention the importance of marketing. But it more strongly emphasizes the superior working environment of indie games, quite apart from the money to be made. It&#8217;s a healthier, more sensible way to approach game design. And if you &#8220;only&#8221; pull down $100K a year &#8212; well, I hope there are designers stuck in some sweatshop studio who might be willing to make that tradeoff!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-135</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-135</guid>
		<description>Darius I think you're absolutely right on that, and aside from pure quality of gameplay the marketing behind a game is probably the biggest differentiator between titles.

Unfortunately a lot of the less successful developers don't realize this and focus purely on making the best game they can. That's a great goal, but in order to be truly succesful you need to have a strong distribution network and marketing to help support the title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darius I think you&#8217;re absolutely right on that, and aside from pure quality of gameplay the marketing behind a game is probably the biggest differentiator between titles.</p>
<p>Unfortunately a lot of the less successful developers don&#8217;t realize this and focus purely on making the best game they can. That&#8217;s a great goal, but in order to be truly succesful you need to have a strong distribution network and marketing to help support the title.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius Young</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Darius Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Having a great low buget &lt;a href="http://www.naturalgames.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;game download&lt;/a&gt; means nothing if you don't have the right marketing tools to get it out to the hands of the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having a great low buget <a href="http://www.naturalgames.com" rel="nofollow">game download</a> means nothing if you don&#8217;t have the right marketing tools to get it out to the hands of the public.</p>
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		<title>By: Parrot</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>Parrot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-133</guid>
		<description>I think Varney has been misled. Show me a rich indie game producer and I'll introduce you to 1,000 broke ones who made better games. I think it's about marketing. For marketing, you need money. As the market grows, so does the cost. If the market is recognised by the media it usually means it's already flooded and that the 'little guys' are already on the way out. I only wish the article was true .. maybe then I could afford that monster truck I've always wanted ..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Varney has been misled. Show me a rich indie game producer and I&#8217;ll introduce you to 1,000 broke ones who made better games. I think it&#8217;s about marketing. For marketing, you need money. As the market grows, so does the cost. If the market is recognised by the media it usually means it&#8217;s already flooded and that the &#8216;little guys&#8217; are already on the way out. I only wish the article was true .. maybe then I could afford that monster truck I&#8217;ve always wanted ..</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-132</guid>
		<description>I've just been through the Shockwave site and their top download games are bigger ones which would have larger budgets, but I still can't see them being $150k worth of budget.

I guess I'm coming from the bedroom coder side of things. The places that I frequent (mainly indiegamer forum) have larger developers like Reflexive but also have many, many smaller developers.

I think a lot of it comes down to how you define success actually. A small team like Raptisoft don't need to sell as much as a company like Reflexive so can be 'successful' with lower sales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just been through the Shockwave site and their top download games are bigger ones which would have larger budgets, but I still can&#8217;t see them being $150k worth of budget.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m coming from the bedroom coder side of things. The places that I frequent (mainly indiegamer forum) have larger developers like Reflexive but also have many, many smaller developers.</p>
<p>I think a lot of it comes down to how you define success actually. A small team like Raptisoft don&#8217;t need to sell as much as a company like Reflexive so can be &#8217;successful&#8217; with lower sales.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>I guess it depends on whether you're talking about average in terms of the total number of games, or average in terms of the top games.

If you look at the top downloadable games at Zone, Shockwave, AOL, etc. You'll see that the majority of those games are of exceptionally high quality and high production value. I don't look at Diner Dash as the exception, I look at it as the norm for top-tier successful games.

I'm certainly not trying to knock small 2-3 person teams. I'm actually a big fan of Raptisoft and think they've made some great titles, but I think that size of team is becoming less and less typical, especially for very successful games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it depends on whether you&#8217;re talking about average in terms of the total number of games, or average in terms of the top games.</p>
<p>If you look at the top downloadable games at Zone, Shockwave, AOL, etc. You&#8217;ll see that the majority of those games are of exceptionally high quality and high production value. I don&#8217;t look at Diner Dash as the exception, I look at it as the norm for top-tier successful games.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m certainly not trying to knock small 2-3 person teams. I&#8217;m actually a big fan of Raptisoft and think they&#8217;ve made some great titles, but I think that size of team is becoming less and less typical, especially for very successful games.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fuel2-dev.fuelindustries.com/blogs/2005-08-30/the-unreality-of-casual-games-fortunes/#comment-130</guid>
		<description>Wow - $150k is the average! How many indie games developers have  you talked to about this? I know many of them and I don't know anyone who would spend that sort of money getting a game out. If you're talking about three rings or Jagex then I guess it's understandable, but mmo's are a very different beast. Lone developers like Retro4, and Raptisoft are still 2/ 3 man teams with shoestring budgets who make massively successful games.

Now I think about it there is Diner Dash but that's an exception (there's always one) - I'm sure there are others but in general the 'shoestring' game developement is very much alive and kicking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow - $150k is the average! How many indie games developers have  you talked to about this? I know many of them and I don&#8217;t know anyone who would spend that sort of money getting a game out. If you&#8217;re talking about three rings or Jagex then I guess it&#8217;s understandable, but mmo&#8217;s are a very different beast. Lone developers like Retro4, and Raptisoft are still 2/ 3 man teams with shoestring budgets who make massively successful games.</p>
<p>Now I think about it there is Diner Dash but that&#8217;s an exception (there&#8217;s always one) - I&#8217;m sure there are others but in general the &#8217;shoestring&#8217; game developement is very much alive and kicking.</p>
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